________________________________________________________________________________ the really bad thing about clichés is that they're mostly true. when people in europe and in otger parts of the world think about U.S. politics and companies they often think about big arrogant uncle sam who equates U.S. with world wide. persons like mr. woolsey underline such impressions. i really can't understand how someone who had a high position in a system that is based on corruption is able to afford blaming others of bribery.just think of U.S. elections. they're not really about votes, the presidential candidates only have a chance to win if they collect as many "donations" as possible. the one who has the majority of the U.S. economy behind him will win. do you really think that they're not expecting to get something back for this? in the past, this may have been limited to their national markets but through globalisation this has become a global thing. it is right that european technology is often not as good as the U.S. one, but ECHELON is not about U.S. vs. E.U., it is about the U.S. vs. the world. take japan, for example. U.S. companies had been trying to enter japanese markets for decades, even for centuries without any success. ever been wondering why they have been able to do so in recent years? industrial espionage is not just limited to technological issues, but one is able to learn about certain connections and how certain people/companies/organizations think and act, about their strategies. Argumenting that they're doing it to proof bribery is just a stupid excuse as he mentions a few lines below that U.S. firms act the same way. the worst thing about ECHELON is, that, in my opinion, there won't happen anything. few weeks ago there have been tv reports and i even found an article about it in the local newspaper where i live, in the middle of nowhere. but now? information of ECHELON will continue, but only in the underground like on this list, as the whole thing is to complex for most people. it is just not "consumable". what possibilities are there? what efforts could be taken to resist? if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know. maybe the ECHELON system is just a part of something even bigger, maybe it is just a nice little plug-in of THE MATRIX. ________________________________________________________________________________ no copyright 2000 rolux.org - no commercial use without permission. is a moderated mailing list for the advancement of minor criticism. more information: mail to: majordomo@rolux.org, subject line: , message body: info. further questions: mail to: rolux-owner@rolux.org. archive: http://www.rolux.org